Have you wondered how abusers manipulate their victims? Chandra shares how her first husband manipulated her to keep her in the dark. Chandra, a Shero and member of the BTR.ORG community, shares the first part of her incredible story of surviving abuse despite her first husband’s many attempts to control the narrative.

If you’re in this situation and need support, attend a Betrayal Trauma Recovery Group Session TODAY.

This episode is Part One of Anne’s interview with Chandra:

Part 1: This Is How Abusers Manipulate Their Victims – Chandra’s First Marriage (THIS EPISODE)
Part 2: When My New Husband Is Abusive Too – Chandra’s Second Marriage

Abusers Control The Narrative By Talking First

It’s strategic – the way they control the story. This is how abusers manipulate their victims. And the first step they take is telling the story first. The first to talk is generally the one that people believe, unfortunately. So if the abuser seeks religious counseling, back-up from law enforcement, or “emotional support” from family and friends before the victim. They are more likely to be believed and discredit the victim.

Furthermore, abusers manipulate their victims by spinning the narrative to make themselves look like the victim. They often do this by admitting to a degree of abuse, but giving an excuse that draws pity or praise:

• “Yes, I did cheat, but I’m working a therapist on overcoming my childhood trauma, and I’m hoping she’ll forgive me for my attachment issues that led to me betraying her…”
• “If it wasn’t a sexless marriage, I wouldn’t have to do the things I do…”
• “My family was abusive, and I’m working so hard to be a better man. I just wish she’d stop ignoring my texts so I could tell her how hard I’m working. Can you ask her to talk to me?”

Abusers Spin The Story: “I’m The Actual Victim Here”

Whether they blame the affair partner, like Chandra’s ex-husband did, or blame the abusive family they grew up in:

“I was raised to _____” (objectify women, use pornography, hit, sexually abuse women, etc)

Blame society:

“I’m a man! What do you expect?”

Or blame a host of other situations or people, including their hormones, friends, alcohol, drugs, or stress. Abusers manipulate their victims and are adept at shifting blame from taking accountability for their own choices. To make it appear they were the victim of just about anyone and anything else.

The message is loud and clear: “I’m the victim! So feel sorry for me! Stay distracted from trying to ask me to stop hurting you, and don’t even think about asking me to be accountable. I want to be catered to. And given all the so-called privileges that I perceive victims receive!”

Abusers Control The Narrative Early & Often

Healthy people are generally compassionate, and abusers manipulate their victims by using this. It’s common for abusers to disclose childhood abuse and other traumas early in the relationship. To elicit a blanket of pity that allows them to behave as they want, without consequences. This way, they can be as awful as they want, and can never be held accountable because of the pain from their childhood trauma. But here’s the thing:

Many, many adults have severe childhood trauma – but many, many adults choose not to abuse others.

In some cases, I feel like they just make stuff up to make people feel sorry for them or to elicit pity. And they kind of ride off of that, and that’s how they get away with a lot of things.

Anne Blythe, Founder of BTR.ORG

Ultimately, we can feel compassion for abusers while still holding them accountable and holding tight to our boundaries. Which include maintaining a healthy distance between ourselves and abusive behaviors.

BTR.ORG Is Here For You

This is how abusers manipulate their victims: When abusers control the narrative, it’s terrifying. We feel like no one will believe us, sometimes we don’t even believe ourselves.

But at BTR.ORG, we believe YOU. You aren’t alone, and we know you are not crazy. You’re safe here. Come join our Group Sessions today and find the community that will always have your back.

Transcript: This Is How Abusers Manipulate Their Victims

Anne: I have a member of our community on today’s episode. I’m going to call her Chandra. She’s a mother of four children. She’s a professional mechanical engineer, and a running enthusiast. She happens to be a Boston marathon finisher. So yay, good job there! She loves yoga and happily married for three years to a healthy, kind, humble man. Chandra married two separate abusers.

So part one will be about her first marriage, and then part two next week will be about her second marriage. This episode will focus on how abusers manipulate their victims by controlling the narrative. And then of course stay tuned for next week about her second marriage. Because so many women have gone through that. Where they get out of one abusive marriage, and then through no fault of their own, find themselves in a second one.

Welcome to Betrayal Trauma Recovery, Chandra.

Chandra: Thank you, Anne.

Anne: Our stories, Chandra. That’s where do we even start, right?

Chandra: Yeah.

Anne: Yeah, so because you have, I would say, your own story, which is one complete story of your experience, but your story includes two marriages. Let’s start with the first marriage. How old were you when you met him?

And did you recognize that you were experiencing abuse at first?

Chandra’s First Marriage: The Beginning

Chandra: I met my first husband when I was about 17, and we started dating then. He was known for having a girl in every city. When he “chose me,” I felt like I had won the lottery. He was a charismatic, outgoing person, and I wasn’t so much. What I didn’t recognize in these early stages was that he was a bit of a womanizer. And loved that attention from other women. And he loved bombed me a lot at first. I didn’t recognize that’s what that was.

That this is how abusers manipulate their victims. I felt like I enjoyed the attention I got from him and his prolific love letters and professions of love. It’s intoxicating, right? So that’s how things started, and I didn’t see any red flags early on. Right before we married, he actually served a mission trip, a two year mission trip for our church. Right before he left, he gave me a little promise ring. And said, “When I come back, we will marry.”

We’d been dating for about six months when he left, and I was excited about that. I thought, that’s going to be awesome. And I think I’d like to wait for this person, because I was in love with him. And while he was away for those two years, he wrote me a lot of love letters. I thought, this guy isn’t working on his mission. He just writes me letters, and they’re full of all these professions of love.

Early Red Flags & Realizations

Chandra: When he returned, we basically marry within less than a year. We were both 21 at the time. So I was a little young and still in university. A couple of days before we married, he told me something he had just realized. He told me he remembered when he was five, a foster child living in his family home sexually abused him. And I remember at the time thinking to myself, oh boy, what kind of can of worms is this going to be?

And if he’s just realizing this, you know, it sounds like something we’ll have to deal with during the marriage. Because he hasn’t obviously dealt with it up to this point. So I expected some issues. And I knew, because he confessed to me, that during his teenage years, he had made some “mistakes.” And I didn’t know that this is how abusers manipulate their victims.

If you’re thinking about the standards of our church. He’d had some indiscretions and had sorted all that out. He never wanted to get into any details with me. About what that involved. So, I saved myself for marriage, and as far as I knew, he had as well. Our parents raised us that way.

He checked all the boxes. He had all the right things when it came to a marriage partner. Even though we were young, I didn’t expect to run into any problems. And I know that everybody liked him in my family, and everyone was excited about our marriage. So we married. The first time I became aware I could have a problem in my marriage was when my oldest daughter was 18 months old.

Thinking I Was Not Good Enough

Chandra: My younger sister had actually just passed away. He decided that was a good time to tell me that he was actually developing a relationship with someone else at work. I remember reflecting later on this. Why did I responded this way? But I immediately thought it was something to do with me. That I was not good enough. This is how abusers manipulate their victims.

I was in school, we had a baby and it was a rough time. We were tired and didn’t have a lot of money. And I thought, oh, all the pressures of getting our lives off the ground, it’s been too much for him. So I thought, oh, I’ve got to make life better for him, and I’ve got to fix this, and maybe I’m not good enough. I basically spent the rest of the marriage trying to be the perfect wife. And just getting angrier and angrier as I noticed red flags popping up.

I noticed he would lie to me about small things, about money. I could see him flirting with other women. And he became more and more deceptive and withdrawn. He never emotionally connected with me or opened up to me. I think that’s all part of their desire to control the narrative.

As I get into my story more, I definitely have some examples of how he did that kind of thing. Making it about him, and telling me things that were not true, to control the narrative and what I was experiencing. It’s very confusing to be around someone doing that. The first time I had any inkling that I was in something that might be abusive in terms of a relationship.

The Inappropriate Neighbor Incident

Chandra: We lived in this neighborhood. I had three children at the time. I think I was pregnant with my fourth and last child. There was a lady who moved into the neighborhood. She was a single mom, separated from her husband. She had three children, and needed a lot of help. I remember befriending her and having her over with her kids, talking to her and doing things for her. I would watch her kids sometimes.

At Christmas time, she didn’t have a lot of money, and we were doing reasonably well. So I bought some gifts for her kids, took them over to them, and invited them for Christmas dinner. She was in my life, and I think we actually invited her to church with us. She was sitting behind us in the pew with her kids.

The bishop in our congregation at the time actually came to my ex-husband after the meeting and warned him. He said to him, “I think you need to be careful of the woman you brought to church.” And I didn’t know at the time, he was fooling around with her. This is how abusers manipulate their victims. I didn’t know the extent of what was happening. But I was starting to feel strange about the situation, and I visited a friend of mine.

She, my closest friend at the time, actually married his best friend. And I was talking to them and mentioned the situation. And her husband, my friend’s husband, his best friend, said to me, “You don’t know everything about him, you know.” And I thought, What? What does he mean by that? And I went home, and that was the first thing I asked him. What’s going on with this neighbor?

He Admits To An Affair

Chandra: And I think at the time she’d actually moved out of the neighborhood. He told me he was friends with her and they were working on a business together. This is how abusers manipulate their victims. And she had this great business idea, and he had this pattern of always starting businesses. I don’t know why, but he loved to start businesses. He made a bunch of money, and then he spent it all or lost it all. It was kind of the cyclical behavior that he had.

So he started a business with her. He told me that she had basically attacked him. He was the one who had taken the high road. And said, “There’s all these people we need to think about. We can’t have this happen, there’s all these children, and my wife.” He was trying to make himself look like he was the good guy, and that he stopped it.

Anne: And at the same time, he’s not cutting off contact with her.

Chandra: No, no, and I still don’t know if he completely cut it off. She wasn’t living in the neighborhood anymore, and I honestly don’t know what happened after that. But when my friend’s husband told me I didn’t know everything about him, he actually wasn’t talking about this woman. He was talking about something else that I knew nothing about.

Anne: Wow.

Chandra: He talked about how my ex-husband went to strip clubs. He knew my husband would go to strip clubs. I knew nothing about that until many years later, when my husband did a big disclosure dump on me right before he left.

His Best Friend Knew, But Didn’t Tell Me

Chandra: What bugs me about my friend’s husband knowing that and not sharing that with me. Is feeling like there was someone else who knew about his destructive behaviors and was complicit in his abuse of me. I was so upset later on just knowing that.

Anne: Why didn’t he just flat out tell you?

Chandra: Yeah, he was like, oh, well this is between you two, and I’m going to let you go home and talk to him about this. And ask him.

Anne: Yeah, but he’s already been lying to you the whole time, right?

Chandra: Exactly, this is how abusers manipulate their victims.

Anne: So, why wouldn’t he lie to you again? The other question I have is, did you say it was the bishop that came over that day and said, I’d watch out for her?

Chandra: Yep.

Anne: Okay, I don’t know if he knew what was going on or not, but why didn’t he say watch out for your own husband?

Chandra: Well, he didn’t talk to me. He talked to my husband. And said he thought this woman looked like she was. He just had a funny feeling about the situation, and he said that to my husband.

Anne: And he assumed it was her, rather than him.

Chandra: He assumed it was her, not him. He assumed my husband was innocent in the whole thing. I know, scary, huh? That is super scary. Nobody said anything to me either, so I had no idea.

My Sister-In-Law’s Reaction Shook Me Up

Chandra: This is what happened. I had a sister-in-law living in the same city as me at the same time. And we were close. I was just talking to her one day. And I told her about all this, and I said, oh, this stuff happened. I was just kind of telling her and her reaction. She was so indignant and so upset. About the whole thing, and her reaction actually shook me loose. Because I was going along like, yeah, this happened.

And it’s not great. And I don’t know what to do about it. But she was upset about it. I actually had a fight with him, I think that night or like later that week. And I brought it up again. I felt like he was like telling me all these lies to cover up what was going on. This is how abusers manipulate their victims. But I had no proof that anything he was saying to me was true or not. So I could feel there was something wrong, but I had no proof. And I was upset. I went for a walk.

I was like five months, six months pregnant. It’s the middle of winter. I’m out walking for about an hour, and just the sum total of all the small lies. And seeing him flirt with other women, and all the bending over backwards, I’d done. To be the perfect wife, so that he would be happy.

I just thought, I need to get out of this relationship. So I remember thinking that and just thinking, I don’t want to be here anymore. I don’t want to do this anymore. But I was pregnant. I had been out of school for six or seven years. I had no work experience. And I was scared.

He Was Mr. Charisma: How Abusers Manipulate Their Victims

Chandra: I was also afraid of how I would be treated by all the people who pressured us to succeed in our marriage. You know, the faith community, the families. I knew nobody would believe me. Because he was Mr. Charisma, and everybody thought he worshiped the ground I walked on. This is how abusers manipulate their victims. The way he behaved outwardly made it look like that. So I didn’t think I could do anything at the time. And so I didn’t, I didn’t leave.

I wish I had, because being abandoned is a lot worse than getting the courage up to leave yourself.

Anne: Do you feel like now that was God telling you to leave? I mean, you kind of mentioned that, but do you feel now that that’s really what that was?

Chandra: Oh yeah, absolutely. I mean, I believe in God, and I’m a praying woman. And I can definitely see when I look back, many, many situations where God was trying to help me move forward. And get away from dangerous situations to protect me and help me. You know, I do see that.

Anne: God’s telling us something, we can feel that, and yet religious scripting. Or maybe even our religious leaders are telling us to go against the revelation God is giving us. Like we’re thinking, no, we can’t break our vows or covenants. Or we can’t “break up our family.” When God directly tells us, you are not safe. You need to get to safety. And we don’t have the words, the understanding, or the knowledge to interpret it that way at the time.

Abusers Manipulate Their Victims: The Final Straw

Anne: So I don’t think it’s our fault, it’s so hard to do what God wants us to do. When the people we feel like, I’m going to say “represent God on the earth.” Our minister, pastor or bishop, tells us to do something different. It’s confusing.

Chandra: It’s hard to overcome that. I agree with you, so that happened, that whole situation with that woman. And my sister-in-law’s reaction woke me up. This is how abusers manipulate their victims. I had my fourth child, and we moved out of the city we lived in at the time. He was laid off. An opportunity to take a job came up for me. My youngest was three years old.

I had planned to get my career off the ground and start working towards becoming a professional engineer. I’ve been to school for that. When my kids were in school, so she, my baby, was almost there. And I thought, okay, I’ll take this job and start working. And so one day, I had borrowed his computer and searched for something. So somehow as I searched, this history came up. It basically said something like naked pictures of someone’s name, and I recognized the name.

It was actually the name of a co-worker of his. I’m so glad it was almost near the end of the day, because I could not even function. Like, I just lost my mind. The stress reaction, fight or flight, my heart started beating, and I was like, oh my gosh. All these years. After I decided to stay in the marriage during my pregnancy with my youngest, I had kept doing what I was doing. I kept playing the part and wearing the mask with him, because I didn’t know what else to do.

Discovering Pornography & Waiting For Him To Step Up

Chandra: I kept trying to be the good wife and do everything. And I realized the gig is up. I knew that I was with someone that was never going to change. I confronted him with it. When he came to pick me up. I have never screamed at someone so loud in my life. It was just all the years and years and years of pent up frustration, fear, anxiety and sadness and just all those feelings of not being good enough. And I just thought, this is ridiculous.

So I discovered the pornography and we went to see our clergy. I didn’t find him abusive. He was supportive. And suggested we start getting some counseling. Of course, like most people, they go for couples counseling as if it’s a couple’s problem, which it’s not. I understand that now, but at the time I didn’t know better. We arranged for some counseling. This is how abusers manipulate their victims.

And somehow when we went to the first session, the person didn’t show up. And I’m not sure what happened with the scheduling. But I remember thinking to myself, okay, this needs to be rescheduled. I thought the only way I’m going to know that my husband cares about this relationship. And actually wants to do something about this, is if he makes the appointment. So I stepped back, but nothing ever happened.

He didn’t set up an appointment. He did nothing. And so we continued for another year. A year later, I don’t even know why, suddenly he decided we should buy a new house. And the house we were living in had two separate units. I mean, we lived in the house as if it was one house, but there was a back area that you could rent.

I Ask If Something Is Wrong & He Says He’s Thinking Of Leaving

Chandra: And we decided to hang on to the house and rent it out. And so we bought this new house. This was in June of 2007. After the sale, we were going to be moving in a couple of months. He was working on getting tenants for the house we were living in at the time. He got a tenant for the one main part of the house, but he hadn’t gotten anybody for the back of the house. And he was acting really, really strangely. And this was in July and there was something really wrong with him.

I didn’t know what it was. I read a book called Fierce Conversations, and I thought I would put into practice something I’d learned in the book. And I asked him one night, I’m like, I’ve noticed you’re not yourself. Are you okay? Is anything wrong?

And he’s like, well, nothing is wrong. And I said, well, what would be wrong if there was something wrong? Thinking I’m using my fantastic conversation skills. And he said, oh, well, I’m thinking of leaving. This is how abusers manipulate their victims. And I was like.

Anne: Nothing’s wrong, but I, I hate you and our marriage is gonna end.

Chandra: Yeah, he said nothing’s wrong. And I’m like, well, what would it be if there was something wrong? And he goes, well, I’m thinking of leaving. I was like, what? This is like right before bed, and of course he goes to bed and has a nice night’s sleep. I was up all night, and I actually called his mother, and I said, “Your son just told me he wants to leave, and I have no idea why.”

Confessing The Affair: How Abusers Manipulate Their Victims

Chandra: I asked him. I said, “Why do you want to leave? Why?” He wouldn’t tell me, didn’t even have an answer. And I just thought, well, it’s related to the pornography somehow. I don’t know how, but something’s not right here. And I immediately became like this anxious mess. You know, I felt like I had to get up to speak all the time. My stomach was in knots. It was exhausting.

And it went on for about two months until he finally left. But during those two months, we moved into the house. The back part of the other house is still vacant. I started to clue in that when he left, he was planning to move into the back of that house. He’d been planning this for a while, like since at least May or June.

So we moved in this brand new house. It’s beautiful. It’s everything I could ever want. But I’m sitting there going, do you actually think I’m going to pay for this myself? Because I knew I couldn’t. My job wasn’t full-time hours, and I knew I couldn’t afford the house on my own, and I thought what is he doing? And we went out and bought new furniture. He was doing all these things to set up this life.

This was supposed to be the last house. But then, he’s talking about leaving, and it just made no sense at all. And finally, he wrote a letter, and said he felt terrible. I did not deserve the way he treated me throughout the marriage. He admitted he had many problems and made a mistake when he went on a business trip to Chicago. He had slept with another woman, “made a mistake.” This is how abusers manipulate their victims.

The Aftermath Of The Affair, He Made A Mockery Of Our Marriage

Anne: “Made a mistake.”

Chandra: Right, like I just, I slipped and fell into bed with her, and she landed on top of me. I mean, I don’t know, whatever. Right, he said he realized he’d made a mockery of our marriage. And that, that I didn’t deserve how he behaved. I feel silly about this now, but I remember thinking, oh good, finally. All the discussions we’ve had where I’ve tried to get him to open up. And connect with me and tell me what’s really going on with him.

He finally disclosed the truth. This is how abusers manipulate their victims. And now we can start working on this, fixing it, and making it right. Solve the problems. You know, I’m an engineer, I want to solve the problems, right? So, he was basically trying to get me to kick him out. And he thought if he admitted to that, I would do that.

Anne: Your story is sounding very similar to mine.

Chandra: Is it?

Anne: Yeah, because at the end, he wanted me to kick him out. I didn’t see it at the time, but looking back, it was painfully obvious. And then he could blame me for it. So he wanted to leave, but he wanted to blame me. Yeah, it’s weird. And they start acting crazy.

Chandra: Yes, yes, oh my gosh.

Anne: And then my bishop and everyone was like, Oh, you kicked him out, you did this to him, and it worked. It just went sideways with me. I don’t know how it went with you, but yeah. It’s interesting.

Chandra: Isn’t that interesting? I mean, I didn’t see it till later either, but I realize now, yeah, he didn’t want to look like the guy that left his wife and kids.

He Didn’t Want To Look Like The Bad Guy Abandoning The Family: How Abusers Manipulate Their Victims

Chandra: He didn’t want to be the man who abandons his family to be with an affair partner, right? This is how abusers manipulate their victims. He realized the letter didn’t work. Because I was still there, and I didn’t say I wanted him to leave. And so the next thing he does is he decided to disclose everything he had done, the entire marriage to me.

One night he sits me down and says, actually, that letter I wrote you, it’s not true. And that didn’t actually happen. And by the way, I went to massage parlors and strip clubs, I was with this woman. I did that. There was this big list of things he’d done throughout the marriage. I asked him some questions and tried to get the whole story. But of course, looking back, I think how much of that was actually true?

I don’t even know, because the whole purpose was to tell me enough to kick him out. Without telling me too much, so that he wouldn’t look like the bad guy. Because one important thing he left out was the affair he was having, which no one knew about at the time. So basically, the same thing happened. I thought, oh, now I’ve got the truth. Now I know everything. Now we can start working on it. But a few days later, I realized actually nothing’s changed.

He hasn’t said we’re going to counseling now, or I’m gonna do this to fix it or that to fix it. I realized I was being fooled again, and the tension in the house was palpable, like it was so awful. And I was losing my mind. It was a terrible situation. I realized the kids probably felt it. Like, it was really, really stressful.

Asking Him To Leave & Finding Out About An Affair

Chandra: And I finally said, you’re putting us through hell. I think you should just leave. I can’t take it anymore. Like, I can’t tolerate this. And so, he practically kicked up his heels, packed a bag, and left with this big smile on his face. And I, I still didn’t know what to do. But I suspected there was another woman. I just didn’t know. I had no way to prove it. This is how abusers manipulate their victims.

So, because I wasn’t aware of anything happening at the time, I allowed him to return to the house and babysit the kids when I was at work. Okay? So, he was in the house one day, and I came home from work, and he left. And I went down to our basement where the computer was, and checked my emails, and lo and behold, he had left his emails wide open. I came across the affair had been going on for four months.

And it was the worst thing I’ve ever experienced, reading through the emails between him and her, because they totally demonized me. They criticized me and made fun of me in these emails. And, you know, I realize now it was all to justify himself. He had to feel like I was this awful person to sell it to her. And she knew he was married, and she was married too. They both left their spouses for each other.

But basically, I sent all the emails to myself, and then I sent them to him. And he thought I was gonna try to expose him. And she came from a prominent family in the community. She thought I would send it to the media. Which was funny, because I thought I would never do that.

How Abusers Manipulate Their Victims: Accusations & Lies

Chandra: But he accused me of hacking into his account, and she was terrified of what was going to happen.

Anne: Part of me actually does wonder if he left it open on purpose so he could accuse you of hacking into his account.

Chandra: I guess that’s possible, I know.

Anne: And also thinking it would hurt you if you found it.

Chandra: Maybe.

Anne: They enjoy that. You know? They do things that you think seem strange, but sometimes they have their own sick purposes for it. And the reason I say that, again, not knowing, right? If you feel like he didn’t do it on purpose, that’s likely at the same time. Yeah, they do things like that on purpose to distress us. This is how abusers manipulate their victims.

And also to make you look crazy and to be able to accuse you of things. That does happen to other women, even if it wasn’t the case in this specific instance.

Chandra: I mean, it’s possible, but I didn’t get that sense. Like he was upset and said I’d hacked his account. And. I was like, I don’t even know how to do that, so I don’t think so, right? So, yeah, and actually, I did something. Maybe this was wrong, but I sent those emails to his parents too. To say, look, this is what happened.

Anne: I don’t think that’s ever wrong. People say it’s wrong because they don’t want to get caught.

Chandra: I wanted them to know what was happening. I didn’t want them coming back on me and accusing me of being the reason the marriage failed.

Legal Struggles & Abuse Escalates Because Abusers Manipulate Their Victims

Chandra: A year later, when we were in court, they did that anyway. It was hard, they were so loving and good people. Also part of our faith community. It was really difficult to be treated like I was the bad guy, it didn’t happen at first. It took about a year for that to happen. Eventually, he managed to convince them I was the reason why the marriage failed. It was really hard. This is how abusers manipulate their victims.

I found out about the affair. Once that came out, he became really abusive overnight. The abuse I experienced in the marriage was more lying, manipulation, and gaslighting. It would be emotional, psychological, and he was neglectful. He wouldn’t let me in beyond his thick stone walls around himself. It was more of a neglect than anything, but suddenly he became extremely, extremely verbally abusive.

To the point where I had to start getting other people to communicate with him for me. It took me a long time to wrap my head around the fact that he was not my loving husband anymore. And I would sit there and read things he sent me, or he would yell at me on the phone. And I would sit there and listen and be like, oh, you know, maybe what he’s saying is true, and etc. What happened was actually so many crazy things right after he left. This is how abusers manipulate their victims.

I actually lost my job because I was working on a project, a production project, that got moved to Mexico. But because I was involved in developing all the documentation for the process and the quality checks, they asked me to work in Mexico for a short period. So I negotiated a contract.

Facing Up To Supporting My Children With Job Changes

Chandra: And went down and worked in Mexico for several weeks on and off. And I had family members and members of the faith community helping me with my children. While I went down, and made enough money to keep us afloat. And in the meantime, I found a job. Unfortunately, at the time, I had so little experience. We lived in the greater Toronto area where there’s lots of work. But mostly for people who have over five years of experience as an engineer, which I didn’t have.

So his parents, who lived more than four hours north of Toronto, helped me find a job. It was in a community four hours north of Toronto. The name of the city is North Bay, and I interviewed for a design engineering role up there. They offered me the job. So I could start out and get my career launched. Because I knew from my experience in the marriage with him that he was not going to be consistent with money. This is how abusers manipulate their victims.

Almost immediately, he started cutting back on what he was providing. I was just hanging on to that house to keep a roof roof over me and my kids’ heads. While I waited for the school year to end and my contract in Mexico. And then to start this job north of Toronto. in a remote location, far away from all my family and friends.

I didn’t know anybody up there, but I knew I had to go take this job so that I could support my kids. Because I knew it would be a battle to get him to provide anything.

The Role Of Faith & Community

Chandra: So unfortunately, the child support has been sporadic almost the entire time we’ve been apart. And I know you call that financial abuse, and I’m actually in a court case with him right now to make another change, because my youngest turned 18.

He’s $75, 000 in arrears, and he wants to get it reduced by $50, 000. And his motion to the court is full of lies. And it’s so triggering, still 15 years later, to read the things he writes and think, this guy is lying. There was a lot of abuse. This is how abusers manipulate their victims. When I started cutting off communication with him, he started taking it out on the kids instead of me. Which was really difficult to watch them go through that.

Anne: Let’s pause quickly to talk about how divorce is not the solution to abuse. I am not saying don’t divorce. So please don’t get that impression listeners. Be like, Anne said, divorce is not the solution to abuse. And so ergo, I’m not going to get divorced, if you feel like you need to get divorced. I am saying when you’re married to an abuser, they have some reason to not be full on abusive. Because they don’t want you to kick them out.

Or because they want to maintain some kind of power or control. Once they realize there’s nothing they can do to groom you anymore, it’s full on abuse. And that is usually after the divorce. Or during the divorce proceedings. Now, I think that is a phase of deliverance. So as we pray for deliverance, I like to think about the story of Moses and the Hebrews escaping from Egypt.

Divorce Is Not The End Of Abuse

Anne: If you’re not religious, go with me for a minute. The first stage is Moses bringing them out of Egypt, and they’re backed up against the Red Sea. Then it’s like, Oh, what do we do? That’s the first stage, then the second stage is learning how to protect yourself from abuse. Going through the Red Sea, perhaps on dry ground. There are stages of deliverance in this.

I think that’s what the courts don’t understand. I think that’s what many people don’t understand. They think, oh, we’ll just get divorced and your abuse problems will be solved. We’re thinking, it’s not solving anything. We are still getting severely abused after our divorces. This is how abusers manipulate their victims.

I don’t know if you will disagree or agree that it is exponentially better to not live with them. And to have the court have some type of protection in terms of assets and financial stuff. Even if they don’t obey it, it’s better than having them live in your house. What are your thoughts about that?

Chandra: Yeah, I would agree. Certainly, the abuse became apparent and much, much worse after he left and the affair was exposed. And I definitely noticed that he became extremely abusive. I remember thinking to myself, oh! These were all things he thought before, but never said to me, right?

And he was always building a case and blaming me, because everything was my fault, everything. He blamed everything on me. At one point, he said to me, “Oh, I’ve got 10 people who believe my side of the story.” And I’m like, there’s sides to this? I’m like, okay.

Anne: There’s one truth, buddy, but also, what, you’re like out canvassing for votes or something?

Chandra: That’s what it sounded like.

Abusers Manipulate Their Victims: Continual Abuse & Smear Campaign

Anne: What are you talking about?

Chandra: It sounded like he was out, you know, doing his smear campaign and building a little army of his own against me. And I thought, this is insane. This is how abusers manipulate their victims.

Anne: And also like tallying up the people he’s manipulated.

Chandra: And 10 people said I’m like, okay.

Anne: Crazy talk.

Chandra: I didn’t know, we were building an army like that. I will tell you, I was terrified to go to court with him. And one of the abusive things he had said to me right before I went to court was, “I will never let you divorce me. I know you want to live a celibate life outside of marriage. And so I will never let you divorce me. So you will always have to be alone.” And I was like, what did I do to deserve this, this amount of hatred from you?

Anne: And that’s insane.

Chandra: It’s insane.

Anne: You can’t do that. Like it’s not even believable.

Chandra: That’s what I thought. I thought, oh yeah, watch me, watch me. My clergy at the time was a professor in the university in my town. When I told him that I needed help finding good legal counsel, he referred me to a retired nun. They called her jaws in a dress. She had retired from being a nun.

Court With An Amazing Lawyer Fighting For My Family

Chandra: She’d become a lawyer in the family court system and was there to fight for families like mine. And she was amazing. She died of cancer after my court stuff was done. And she was a blessing, I’ve got to tell you. So she helped me fight. But before I actually started, I remember studying about the battles, and I had always wondered, what is all this stuff in the scriptures for?

And I realized as I read through all of it, oh, this is all about people who went to battle. To fight for their families, for their freedom, and for their rights. I realized I’m not doing something wrong by fighting with him. I’m doing what I need to protect my kids and family.

And I got over the whole fear and the whole like queasy feeling I had about fighting in court with him pretty quickly. Once I’d read that stuff and had that sense again to go ahead and fight. I’ve kicked his butt around the courtroom a few times because I realized I had some advantages over him.

I heard at one point the person with the most paper wins. And so I kept really, really good records, and I always came prepared. He often didn’t even have a lawyer and would try to represent himself. And was disorganized.

Court Is Exhausting, I Knew I Never Wanted Him Back

Chandra: I prevailed in most situations. He was trying to control the situation and control me, I was like, I’m not going to let this happen. I’m will be strong in my career and get to the point where he can’t do anything to control me and my kids.

Anne: It’s amazing what we can do when we believe we can and are willing to work hard. The thing that’s so hard is that we’re so overwhelmed by the abuse, and that is the point. They want to overwhelm us to win, and they want us exhausted. So that’s the part that’s so hard. It is a war.

Chandra: It’s really grueling. This is how abusers manipulate their victims. I remember being so bone tired. Worse sometimes than how hard it is after you have a baby. And they’re not sleeping, and you’re not sleeping for days. But just the emotional stress you’re going through. You’ve got a broken heart, and like I just want to say, he abandoned me. That was really hard on me emotionally. Once I knew about the affair, there wasn’t a second that I thought I ever wanted him back.

After everything that had gone on, it was five years before he left me that I thought about leaving him. And just felt like I couldn’t do it at the time. I mean, looking back, I wish I had. I wish it had been me that left him, because I would have been in better shape emotionally. But, once he left, and I knew why, there wasn’t a second that I thought I wanted him back. I remember feeling, my life is a nightmare. I remember feeling like that a lot. But I didn’t actually want him back, never.

Abusers Manipulate Their Victims: The Reality Of Who He Really Is

Anne: Yeah, I felt the same way. And tell me if you feel this shock. At who he really is, and that I didn’t realize the extent of the evil. I knew something was wrong the whole time. Things were crazy. This is how abusers manipulate their victims. But now that I’ve been out of it, looking back and even looking now at what he’s doing now. The shock is like whoa, it’s so bad. Like it’s way worse than I ever could have imagined.

Chandra: Yeah, I remember feeling like the backdrop of my life was pulled out from under me. I felt like I had no bearings, just my sense of reality was destroyed. I remember looking back at pictures and thinking, what was going on when this was all happening?

And I was in this happy little world, in my little dream world with my kids. Thinking I had this great husband, even though I sensed there was a problem too. I didn’t realize the extent of it, like you said. And had no idea how bad it was going to get. It was scary.

Anne: Would you say on the whole in your first marriage that clergy was helpful?

Chandra: I would say yes, the bishop we had when I discovered the pornography was supportive of me. He was actually a mental health professional in our local hospital. We thought he might have bipolar disorder. I’m not sure. When he left, he was on medication for psychosis, bipolar disorder and depression. And I believe he had gotten all those prescriptions from our bishop. So, I found him supportive.

Church Leader’s Ridiculous Judgement

Chandra: And actually, when my first husband left, I was in the process of renewing my recommend to attend our temple. And I had completed the part with the leader of our congregation. And was ready to go into the second interview at the stake level. The person who interviewed me asked me how things were going in the family. And I said, oh, actually my husband just left our family. He stopped the interview, and said, “Oh, I can’t give you this recommend.”

And I was like, what, why not? I haven’t done anything wrong. And he said, well, we need to wait and see. I think this man was actually a divorce lawyer, and I just felt icky about that. I found out about a week later, I guess my bishop caught wind of what happened. He called that guy and said, “You need to give her her recommend. She has not done anything wrong here.” And so, they took care of it.

Anne: How creepy!

Chandra: I know. I wasn’t expecting that. It was very strange. As if somehow the whole thing was my fault. This is how abusers manipulate their victims. And I was crushed and destroyed. Like, in the middle of the trauma. And this guy tells me I can’t go to my place of peace. And I had done nothing wrong. I’m like, this is ridiculous.

Anne: That is absolutely ridiculous. I’m so sorry. Chandra and I had to actually pause the conversation, because I needed to help my kids. So next week, she’s going to talk about how this transitions into her second marriage with an abuser, and what happened there. So stay tuned.