In this faith-focused podcast episode, Anne Blythe, M.Ed, talks with a victim of ritual abuse. Here’s how one woman’s story can help protect you and your family.
We recognize that many victims of spiritual abuse find religion and spirituality traumatizing, while others find religion and spirituality comforting and healing. Please know that you are welcome and loved in this community, no matter where you are on the spectrum of spirituality.
Our BTR.ORG Group Sessions are a safe space for you to process the grief that often accompanies spiritual abuse. Please attend a session today.
How Does Spiritual Abuse Affect Victims?
Spiritual abuse takes many forms. From abusive men using scripture to coerce wives, to clergy counseling victims to “forgive and forget” abuse and infidelity. Victims of religious abuse may find that religion and spirituality are traumatizing. Women in our community experiencing spiritual abuse share that they get triggered when they:
- Enter a place of worship
- Hear certain verses of scripture
- Clergy, other male leadership or congregation members approach them
- Hear or sing spiritual songs or hymns
- Pray
In the case of Anna M. Jonathan, a member of the BTR.ORG community. The severe spiritual abuse she endured in the form of ritual child abuse did not deter her from engaging in healthy religious and spiritual practices later in life.
Can Victims Of Spiritual Abuse Find Healing?
Many victims of spiritual abuse find healing. Some through disengaging from religious practices, and others through finding a new relationship with their Higher Power.
Victims experience trauma and feel powerless in a scary or painful situation. When this happens over and over, as in instances of psychological and emotional abuse, infidelity, and coercion. Victims may experience a unique level of trauma that makes healing feel impossible.
However, as victims take courageous actions to protect themselves from harm, educate themselves about abuse, and seek community and validation. Healing becomes possible.
Spiritual abuse is one of the most insidious forms of control over another person. Abusers taking advantage of, or completely ruining, another human being’s relationship with their Higher Power is purely cruel.
At BTR.ORG, we want you to know that we trust you however you need to heal from spiritual abuse. Whether that’s by re-engaging with religious and spiritual practices in a new way, or stepping away. We understand and support you.
Transcript: Faith Triumphs Over Ritual Abuse – Anna’s Story
Since this episode deals with Ritual Abuse, to find out more about Ritual Abuse, here are some reputable resources:
US Department Of Justice Information For Ritual Abuse Survivors
Ritualistic Abuse of Children: Dynamics and Impact
Anne: I have a special guest on today’s episode. Her pen name is Anna. We’re not going to get graphic. We will talk around that, we will also talk about how this interacted with her faith.
She and I share the same faith tradition. We’re both still active in our church. So we’re going to be talking about that. For those who are agnostic or different Christian religions or, you are Jewish or Muslim, you are welcome here. We will share our own faith experience. She is a victim of satanic ritual abuse.
Welcome Anna.
Anna: Thank you. I was born into a family where my father was already a member of a satanic ritual abuse occult. And this particular occult was loosely based on the Law of Moses and Mosaic law. There are different definitions of numbers and how things were done. Ceremonies were done according to the ages of people.
They would loosely follow that, but yet would use my church, which I grew up in as a cover. So they were all good members of the church, supposedly, on the outside. But they would meet together and loosely base everything on a Mosaic law. They felt like they were interpreting things in their own way.
Anne: So quickly, when I hear the term satanic ritual abuse occult, I think the people involved worship Satan. You know, they talk about Satan, but you’re saying that’s not the case. The reason why it has that satanic label is because of its evilness.
Ritual Abuse Mimicked Church Heirachy
Anne: But in their actual rituals, they could be referencing God. They could refer to scripture, or in this case, you’re saying the law of Moses. And so like a little kid might not realize this is evil. They might think, “Oh this is just a religious ceremony.” Am I making sense?
Anna: The occult I associated with mimicked the hierarchy in the church. There was a bishop, a prophet, and people in the church type thing or in the occult. So they would mimic certain things. But yet they were strong to do things that made you know, to let you know physically and tangibly that Jesus was not all powerful. Satan was more powerful than Jesus Christ. So, when I say satanic…
Anne: So they did okay…
Anna: Yeah, it’s a power struggle It’s not, do they both exist? Does Jesus exist? And does Satan exist? It’s who’s more powerful.
Anne: And in their minds
Anna: Satan is more powerful, because Satan is tangible, but Jesus Christ is a thing of your imagination.
Anne: Why is Satan tangible to them, just out of curiosity? Because the violence is right there, and they can do it?
Anna: Right there.
Anne: Thank you for explaining that. What’s the definition of satanic ritual abuse occult? Would you say there’s a difference between just satanic ritual abuse and the occult part?
What Satanic Ritual Abuse Occult Means
Anna: I think when someone hears the title satanic ritual abuse occult, they just shut down. When you break it down, it makes a lot of sense. Satanic is just Satan, evil. And ritual is something you do in a precise manner. We all have rituals. Every morning, we get up, brush our teeth, and eat our breakfast. So, a ritual is not evil, but when the ritual is evil.
And occult means out of view or secret. So, you’re just looking at evil things done in a precise manner, abusively, undercover, basically secret.
Anne: We acknowledge, whoa, this is evil. Do the people who engage in these types of behaviors acknowledge it’s wrong? Do they acknowledge that what they’re doing is what Satan would want? Are they like, yeah, Satan’s proud of us? Or do they just think they’re doing like, what do they think?
Anna: Well, I can’t talk for all of them. I can only talk for the occult which involved me, from my birth. I was born in the later fifties. And back then, you didn’t share a lot about the things in your home. I thought of things happening at home as normal until I married. That’s what people did, even though I didn’t feel good about it.
I got sick a lot as a child. And had mononucleosis for eight months and lots of throat issues. I just thought I was a sickly child. My parents argued a lot, and I had several siblings, and I just thought, well, all families are like that. All families struggle with their parents. When you get to be a teenager, you know, everybody doesn’t like their mom and dad.
Finding Out Something’s Wrong
Anna: Well, I didn’t like my dad. We weren’t allowed to mingle and talk. You just didn’t talk a lot about your family situation. I wasn’t aware until I married and was into therapy. And started doing subcognitive thinking therapy. I started to realize, Whoa, something’s wrong here, and I didn’t understand it. Because I was raised in the gospel of Jesus Christ in the church.
I really tried to live the principles of the gospel in my home. I tried to do everything I was supposed to do through the teachings of the church. And just realized that I fell short all the time, that I wasn’t that good. I always had a bad self esteem, because I just felt like I wasn’t measuring up.
Anne: Not knowing that you had experienced this horrendous, horrific abuse in your home, thinking that something was wrong with you.
Anna: Exactly. And not everyone in my home experienced the same things I was. Some of my siblings were favored. They were more involved in the occult, and others weren’t involved hardly at all. And we didn’t talk between ourselves as I look back and look at other people. And I’ve learned and had education and stuff. I realized whoa, you know our family was…
Anne: How many siblings did you have?
Anna: There are eight children altogether.
Anne: Has anyone since you’ve realized what it was that you experienced, and you’ve started talking about it. Has anyone else confirmed your experience? How has that been with your sibling?
Realizing The Ritual Abuse
Anna: I grew up in the church, I ended up marrying a returned missionary. I later realized it was basically an arranged marriage, because my husband was part of the occult. Which I wasn’t aware of, we married in the temple, sealed in the temple, and had children. And they were starting to be groomed. In the occult.
I just knew something was really wrong. I started going suicidal, and this was when I was married. After getting out of the psych unit for the first time, I was told there was a real problem in my marriage. But divorce was never an option because I’d been sealed in the temple.
I just kept trying to figure out what was wrong, that I was doing wrong. And why we always kept hitting brick walls. And so finally, I started going to see a therapist. The therapist didn’t pick up on any spousal abuse or child abuse that were both going on in our home.
But I saw this therapist for four years, and he’s the one that had me read a lot of books and stuff. I realized that in the occult, you are punished if you showed any emotions at all. And I know that’s not just an occult thing. There’s abuse that goes on where, you know, if you show any emotion, you get more abused.
But it was traumatic. If you cried at all or whimpered at all as a child, you were hurt more, horribly abused. And so you learned to not show any emotions. But this therapist started teaching me to listen to myself, to understand my feelings and go with my feelings. That was such a blessing.
Trusting My Feelings & Therapist’s Advice
Anna: So I started listening to the spirit more and trusting my feelings. I started to get the feeling that something was really wrong. Especially when these doctors in the psych unit said there’s something wrong with your marriage. So you need to get into some counseling and stuff.
My husband wouldn’t do it. But it wasn’t long after I got out of the hospital that he left and we separated. People blamed me for keeping him out of the home. My kids wanted to see him so bad, and I just kept saying, no, there’s something wrong. No, he’s not coming back into the home.
And as time went on, the next few months, I ended up with a new therapist. After two sessions, this therapist said, “Would you at least try and consider divorce?” I asked her why, because I was shocked. What had I been saying you would think I needed to get a divorce?
And she said, there were three things. First of all, you can’t stand him touching you. You don’t trust him with your children. And you self destruct in this relationship. And so within two hours after I left her office, I had a divorce attorney. I had finances to pay the attorney, and I’d called my bishop. So I knew I needed to talk to him.
From that point on, I just had to listen to the spirit. I had my two visiting teachers and a sibling that lived about five hours away. This was before cell phones we talked on the phone about every day.
Following My Feelings & Keeping Ritual Abuse Secret
Anna: Those three women encouraged me to follow my feelings, to have the faith and courage to follow the Spirit. Well, we did get a divorce, and that was extremely risky for me to do. Because that could blow the cover for the occult. Because our family was considered the example family for the church. We were sealed in the temple. And we were all active, and we all excelled in our jobs and stuff.
Anne: For listeners who aren’t familiar with our faith, we attend church services on Sunday, and then we also participate in temple ordinances. When she’s talking about the temple, she’s not talking about the satanic ritual abuse occult stuff. We’ve both attended the temple, nothing satanic happens in our temples. So I just wanted to make sure that we separated that out. So as people listen to their story, and they hear you talking about being sealed in the temple.
Which is a beautiful ceremony and peaceful. And the spirit is there, that’s not what she’s talking about. She participated in that with her husband, thinking they had a good relationship. And then this satanic stuff was happening elsewhere. Sorry, I just wanted to make that clear for people who aren’t members of our faith.
Anna: I appreciate that.
Anne: Did you start talking about the abuse during this time? Like, like publicly, you’re saying they didn’t want you to blow the cover. So do you have family members who try to shut you up? Or do they try to stop the divorce?
Choosing Divorce Despite Clerical Advice
Anna: Well, at this time, realizing that I had just come out of the psych unit. about eight months before this. I was on heavy medication. I wasn’t working. And was a stay at home mom. I was heavily sedated. My husband and I were in couples therapy, trying to make our marriage work. But as the months went on, I realized something still didn’t feel right. Despite all the medication and therapy, my relationship with my husband was still toxic and emotionally abusive.
I felt trapped and isolated, and had no support system. I proceeded to get a divorce. Everyone, even my attorney, thought I was going to fail totally. But I had the spirit of the Lord. I had the Lord on my side, and I can testify of that. I went through the divorce, and my bishop was unhappy about it.
Anne: Your bishop did not want you to get divorced?
Anna: No, the day I came home from the therapist, the doors opened like crazy for my divorce. And I went to see my bishop three days later, and I explained everything to him.
I wanted his counsel on it. And he gave me a scripture to read out of the Book of Mormon. He said, if you read this scripture and do what it says, you will get your answer. And when I walked out of his office, I was so discouraged. But the thought came to me: I had asked for his counsel, and I at least needed to try and follow that counsel and see what happened.
Study & Prayer Led Me To Seeking Divorce
Anna: And so I did. I went home that night, and started studying that scripture. I started fasting and praying. And then a couple of days later, I went to the temple. Which the temple for me was a sacred place, and I got my answer in the temple. And it was definitely the answer, I was to divorce. I was shocked, because I thought something must be really wrong for the Lord to sanction a divorce.
I still didn’t understand the whole situation. And so I basically did this on faith. The bishop was shocked when I told him my answer. In fact, he brought me some articles the night before the divorce court about how divorce was not the answer. And I wrote him a card and said I don’t know why, but I know that if I don’t do what I feel impressed to do here. I will be destroyed. It’s not gonna be good.
And I said so I have to do this. I feel so impressed that I need to do this. And so, I did, and about a month later, after the divorce, I felt so much peace. But then I get the impression that I need to educate myself on spousal abuse and child abuse. And you gotta remember that this was 30 years ago. So I go to the library and check out books and reading.
Moving To Get Away From Ritual Abuse
Anna: And then the question came to me, if I’m no longer available, what does the perpetrator do? And in the book I read, it confirmed many times they’ll turn to the children. And I just panicked. That’s when I learned about my children’s abuse, about my abuse. About ten months later, we moved to a whole other state.
It’s one of those stories where I prayed one night and told the Lord that I would go anywhere He wanted me to go. I was hoping we would move near my sibling five hours away, that was so supportive. Because I had no other support from any of my family. But the answer came that I was to move to another state where I knew nobody.
After I fell apart and cried, and wondered why. I pulled up my bootstraps and got ready. About six months later, we moved to another state. We moved and got that far away from my father, from the occult, from my former husband. My kids started talking about all the abuse from their father and grandfather.
I started remembering, piece by piece, all the occult abuse. And I was in therapy for about 14 years, off and on. I had many therapists until I found the one therapist that understood child ritualistic abuse, which affects you in a very different way.
It Is Extremely Difficult To Heal When Raised With Ritual Abuse
Anna: You see things in such a different way when you are in a ritualistic abuse occult as a child growing up in it. I would work with a lot of therapists, and I would get to a point where they would just think, hey, she’s good. And then I would fail really bad, and they couldn’t understand why. But this one psychologist knew what she was doing. She understood it. Now she was Jewish. And so she didn’t believe in Jesus Christ.
And so, as I remembered different things and worked through them. Whenever anything came up where I had a sacred experience, she and I would bump heads a lot. But she knew her stuff. She knew how to work these things through. As I worked them through. And I eventually accepted that I was involved in a satanic abuse situation, which was really hard because I didn’t want to be around anything so hideous.
But then I also realized that I was not responsible. That was another hard thing to get over, and then to put it in the past where it belonged, that it was not who I was now. It wasn’t anything that I would choose. It’s not anything happening to me now. Basically, through all that, my husband kept coming and trying to get custody of the kids, and…
Anne: Your ex husband, right?
Anna: Yeah. I had full custody of the kids, and he kept coming to the other state, trying to get custody, and he never did. Unless you experience some of it or understand some of it, it sounds crazy. But it’s real and it does happen.
Not Crazy & Confirmations About Abuse
Anne: It does not sound crazy to us. You are not crazy. Did you start talking publicly about it with your family members?
Anna: Well, what’s interesting is when I was in therapy, starting to work through some things, You know, I would remember bits and pieces and I would try and put them together.
And I remember talking to one of my siblings one day and saying, I know this sounds crazy, but I just think this has happened. Do you know anything about it? And she goes, oh yes. She said, “Yeah, this did happen.” And I filled in a piece that she didn’t have.
My kids and I first moved to this new state. I started having dreams. The first thought I had was to call another sibling and say, can you come out and visit me? And when this sibling came out, we talked and I said, do you remember dad doing this? Or, doing that, and she confirmed to me, yes. She filled in a lot of different parts. This really happened, the more things that came out that way. It was just more validating about ritual abuse.
And also back when I started remembering these things. I came across an article written. Someone had done a lot of research about satanic abuse victims, and they had done an in-depth interview study with over 60 people. They said they could have done hundreds more, but they limited it because it is very taxing. And I read it, it was like a 22 page document, and it was so validating. And these were people from all denominations. It was like, okay, I’m not crazy.
Hearing About Others Ritual Abuse Helps To Heal
Anna: Because there are all these people saying, Yeah, these things happened to us. And they weren’t related people. They didn’t interview brothers and sisters. They had different people from all different families. As far as my own family, since I moved to the other state, I have had my one sibling come out and visit me when we first moved, and then another sibling moved close to me, which was great.
And then that’s all. And I haven’t talked publicly about this abuse. I’ve talked to a lot of people individually, and I had many people in my ward that were supportive when I was in therapy, and I talked a lot to them.
Anne: Having experienced abuse from your father and then abuse from your husband, but not recognizing that you were being abused. You’re being severely abused, but you’re not recognizing that you’re being severely abused. Emotional, psychological abuse, you’re going through all this. In the overarching context of spiritual abuse, where they’re pulling in things from like mainstream religion, like our faith, and using it to abuse you.
And not only that, but taking it a step further, mimicking those things and putting them in the context of Satan. So I have some questions about that in that occult. When they say Satan is more powerful, talk about how you realized that Jesus Christ for you is more powerful than Satan. When you were taught differently, and also when your earthly experience, no offense, kind of confirmed it.
Struggling To Understand Evil
Anne: You’re living in this abuse, and trying to obey the commandments. But they confirmed Satan was more powerful. Because despite your obedience, despite your scripture study, your prayer, and everything, abuse still oppresses you. And not even knowing it. So in that situation, it would be easy to think, well, where is my Savior here?
So can you talk about that struggle to understand, because your mortal experiences were filled with Satan’s powerful, even overwhelming, tangible evil. How you came to your testimony of Christ?
Anna: When we first moved to the new state. We lived in one place for 14 years and we had five incredible bishops. Mostly because the first bishop was young, and new, a newly created ward. He was very dedicated.
Anne: For listeners who aren’t familiar with our faith, when we say the word ward, what we mean is congregation. And the congregations are volunteers. We don’t have any paid clergy. And the Bishop is called, which means assigned for three to five years, usually, sometimes seven. To manage the ward, to manage the congregation. And then they’re released and someone else is called.
So I just wanted to give background so people could understand what you were saying. So thank you. Keep going.
Anna: That’s great. And they’re lay people. He was so unfamiliar with the abuse that I was talking about, parents abusing their children and grandchildren.
Understanding The True Nature Of Jesus Christ
Anna: Even it was so foreign to him, but he was willing to listen to the spirit, and he did go to the temple often. And he told me I have to fast, pray, and go to the temple a lot, because I just don’t get this. But he was so supportive. And so in turn, he mentored the other four bishops. When bishops changed, or moved into other wards in that same stake.
And so we were extremely blessed in that way. So when I moved to another part of the state, it was a different story with the male clergy, the bishops of our ward. And so this first bishop I worked with, the question came up, how do I see Jesus Christ and Heavenly Father? And for the first time, when I finally expressed that and was honest with my feelings.
Then we started to work to understand the true nature of Jesus Christ and my Father in Heaven, and who they were. My bishops helped me separate how they were different from Satan. They weren’t the same at all, and that took years and years. And finally, as I continued to work through the different experiences I had. Which sometimes included some sacred experiences.
And when I remembered those sacred experiences. I started to understand how Jesus Christ saw me and how my Heavenly Father saw me. It started to change my perception of how I saw them. It finally came before we moved from this area, and lived there for about 14 years.
Christ Is More Powerful Than Fear
Anna: I could see myself standing with my Savior and my Father in Heaven. I wore a beautiful white dress, and I felt confident standing with them, realizing there was a horrific difference between them and Satan. I knew they were both real, but that thought in my mind always lingered there for a long time.
But who is more powerful? And it has just been the daily scripture reading, the following the spirit. My life is in segments. Each experience is tucked away deep inside of my soul. And finally, when I was able to get in therapy and work them through, and start connecting them and saying, “Oh, this is why this happened.” I could finally see Jesus Christ woven throughout my life, even through the most horrific experiences. I could see that he was always there.
The Savior always strengthened me. But it’s been hard to get rid of the fear and allow the faith in Jesus Christ to be more powerful than the fear. I made a big change, when I let go of the fear and strive to have faith. And it’s hard.
Anne: Did you ever consider going a non religious route, like in this struggle, is Christ or Satan more powerful? Did you ever consider thinking, well, maybe this whole thing is just a bunch of hogwash? There is no Jesus. There is no Satan. This is just a way to control and oppress people, I am out. Did you ever consider that route, or was that not ever part of your thought process?
An Experience Of Abuse & Control
Anna: I knew they were both real. I knew from experience that Jesus was real. And I knew from experience that Satan was real. And so no, it’s all a bunch of baloney, was never an option. No. One or the other was more powerful.
This is an experience when I was four years old. I had a green Western dress that I loved because it twirled. My father and I were at his workplace, and he worked on machinery. We were all by ourselves, in a secluded area, and nobody else around, and he wanted me to ____. So at four years old, I told him no. And I started walking for the door, and he had a cigarette lighter that he used in his work.
And he started the back of my dress on fire, and I was almost to the door. I mean, it was so close next to him, so there was no place to run. He knew the fire wouldn’t explode, because I wouldn’t run anywhere. And then he had a bucket of water right next to him that he used in his work. And I started to scream, and he put the fire out immediately.
Well, I You know, he took me in his arms, and I just sobbed and sobbed. And he just then told me, he just said, do not ever tell me no again. And so that was impressive. I mean, it was like people wonder, well, why did you keep doing this stuff? Or why as an adult did you do things he told you to do?
Continuation Of Ritual Abuse & Control
Anna: Well, that was when I was four years old. There are other things that happened when I was 12, that even intensified, that don’t ever tell me no. He told lies about how my dress burned after that. And I knew he was a liar. At that time, I was so confused.
He had started me on fire, but he was my dad. He saved me. And I remember saying a prayer as a four year old after that, and telling Heavenly Father, I don’t want to be here anymore. I want to come home. I want to be with you. And I remember the Savior coming to me Himself. I came to about His knees, and I can remember feeling His robe and feeling His arms. down around me. And I knew that he came to let me know that he was there, and that I would be okay.
Because I couldn’t tell anybody what my daddy had done, because he would hurt me more. And so, as an adult, I realized that I gained confidence about me as the four year old. Because to tell my dad no was pretty gutsy of a little four year old girl. That experience helped me. It gave me some confidence and courage that helped me get through the things that were going to happen. When I was 18, it was hideous. That got so overwhelming that I had a near death experience.
Yeah, it’s been a rough ride. But as I have understood more and more, it becomes my catalyst for why I’m here. A lot of people need encouragement to know that our heavenly parents, and I’m talking mother, are so involved in our lives.
Good Will Triumph Over Evil
Anna: It’s amazing. Jesus Christ and our Father in Heaven and Mother in Heaven are real. And they are true, they know exactly what’s going on. They are here, and they are helping. They know our struggles, but they also know that we’re going to win. We’re going to be okay. And our children are too.
Anne: That good will triumph over evil.
Anna: It will.
Anne: Our Savior is more powerful than Satan. Even if our earthly experiences feel like hell, thank you so much for sharing such sacred experiences. I appreciate that hell is now it’s never going to get worse than this. And we are experiencing it.
Anna: I love that. And that is so awesome. You are right. And yes, hell can get hellisher and hellisher, you know, it can get worse and worse. It seems you’re right. And even now, especially in these last days, you know, Satan is rampant, but that’s why we are here.
That’s why you’re here and doing this incredible work. That’s why we’re here to touch lives and say. Sisters, keep going forward. You’re doing an incredible work, and don’t give up or get discouraged. You know, and throw your hands up at times. But keep reaching out to us who are here to say, keep going, it’s worth it.
However it works out, it’s going to be okay. I just keep hanging on to my covenants. Because I know they’re real, and I know they’re true. I just want you and all the other incredible sisters to know that they are here for a reason, now. And you are good enough, and you will make it.
We Can Get To Safety From Abuse
Anna: And you know, when you’re in the middle of it, just keep getting up every day. Just keep moving forward. Just keep moving forward, even though you don’t know where you’re at half the time. You know, just keep moving forward and it will work out. It doesn’t work out the way we think it’s going to a lot of times, but it will work out.
Anne: Anna and I spent some time together crying after this. I actually stopped recording because it got intense emotionally. So as I’ve been doing this for so long, you know, talking about pornography is because it’s evil. It’s because it is the epitome of evil and wickedness. And wickedness is harmful to our souls, and anyone who uses it. The darkness that surrounds it is so dark and so harmful. I just want you to feel the fruits of your own good choices.
When you marry someone who uses pornography, and they’re continually emotionally and psychologically abusing you, it’s very difficult to feel the fruits of our own good choices. That is why God wants us to separate from wickedness in whatever way it’s going to be safe for us. But we can get to emotional and psychological safety.
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