When Anne Blythe, M.Ed. first started podcasting years ago, she searched, “how to set boundaries with my husband?”. In this episode Anne analyzes one of her old podcast episodes. To point out to her years ago self, all the victim blaming she experienced.

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In this early podcast episode, Anne shares her very first attempts at healthy boundaries. She refers to a 12-step program, “addict behaviors”, and addiction. Now, of course, we understand that abuse is NOT addiction, addiction therapists do NOT help abuse victims find safety, and 12-step programs can be harmful to women in abusive relationships.

True Boundaries Aren’t About Controlling Others’ Choices

“Every time my husband was abusive towards me, I thought that my boundary was giving him a lecture. Literally like a 40 minute lecture about how terrible things were and how I was feeling and what he should do. I thought that’s what boundaries were.”

Anne Blythe, Founder of BTR.ORG

Transcript: How To Set Boundaries With My Husband – My Struggle

Anne: It’s just me today. And I’m actually going to analyze in real time myself from years ago. You’ll hear me describe how I started my journey to set boundaries with my toxic ex. Despite my 12 step sponsor victim blaming me. Despite my 12 step group blaming me. So, if you are wondering how to set boundaries with a toxic ex, listening to this will give you some insight into my process. Of how I came to understand how to set boundaries with my ex.

I did S-Anon in the beginning of podcasting. It is a 12 step group for wives or ex wives of pornography addicts. I actually did an S-Anon group specific to my faith. SALifeline is this particular S-Anon groups name. And I was doing the 12 steps myself. I was actually a 12 step sponsor. And then I also facilitated a 12 step group.

You can hear that I talk about abuse, but I don’t quite understand it. This was before Betrayal Trauma Recovery existed. It was just a podcast. So way back then, I was podcasting in my basement. I hadn’t yet brought on coaches for our group sessions or individual sessions. And hadn’t created the Living Free Workshop. I was trying to figure all this out.

Initial Misconceptions About How To Set Boundaries With My Husband

Anne: Now, since this time, I have removed most of these episodes. I started podcasting in 2016, but if you look on Apple Podcasts, it looks like I haven’t been podcasting that long. Over time, I evolved and realized parts where I got it wrong. But I saved the audio recordings.

And that’s what you’re going to hear today. I actually altered my voice back then, because I was so scared. So hopefully you’ll hear the difference between me now and back then. And back then, I went by anon for anonymous instead of Anne. I actually, haven’t heard this recording in years. So, we’re going to go through this together. I’m a little nervous, but here we go.

From Years-Ago-Anne: So I didn’t know anything about boundaries before starting recovery. In fact, every time my husband abused me or every time he had a slip up, I thought my boundary was giving him a lecture. Literally, like a 40 minute lecture about how terrible things were, how I was feeling, and what he should do. I thought that’s what boundaries were.

Anne: So my first thought is thank goodness that I stopped disguising my voice because I sound like a chipmunk. When I’m talking about my recovery, I was recovering from his pornography addiction. At this point, I think, I’m not sure. Let’s keep listening and see what I say.

Learning True Boundaries Because Of Husband’s Arrest

From Years-Ago-Anne: I have learned since then that is not what boundaries are at all. In fact, God was merciful to me, and he taught me about boundaries in an extremely traumatic way. My husband was arrested and given a court ordered, no contact order. That was my first boundary ever. God gave it. And then I had to decide what to do with that boundary, to keep it, to not keep it. And what that boundary meant.

I realized that my boundary is, keeping safe. And be safe while he continues to act out in this behavior. In my husband’s case, once he was arrested, he did not show any clear signs of recovery behaviors.

There were many things that he could have done. He could have texted every day, for example, and said, “What can I do today for the kids?” He did not choose to talk to my dad, apologize to my dad about some things. There were several things he could do legally.

Anne: At the time, I was so sad that he was not doing any of those things. I wanted our family to be together. And was so depressed about it. I could not see how my life would ever get better. And now listening to myself, I’m thinking, thank goodness. I’m so grateful that I did not get groomed, because in my vulnerable state. If he had groomed me at that time by doing any of those things? I’m pretty sure his manipulation would’ve absolutely trapped me again.

All right. What else did I say?

Husband’s Lack Of Recovery Behaviors & My Knowledge Of How To Set Boundaries With My Husband

From Years-Ago-Anne: He did not show any signs of that. He did not put forth a plan. “I realize this is what happened. I’m sorry, this is my plan for recovery. This is what I’m going to do to return to the house.” He never asked to return to the house. So, for me, there was no way that I could do that. Remove or amend the do not contact order to talk with him, because he was not showing any recovery behaviors.

Anne: When I say, he’s not showing any recovery behaviors here. I’m a little concerned for myself, because I’m thinking, are you just looking for him to check off some boxes? And again, just so grateful that he wasn’t checking boxes. That would have been really hard.

From Years-Ago-Anne: So what are boundaries? Boundaries are like fences between neighbors. They define the limits of a relationship. And provide safety and structure, and define appropriate and inappropriate engagement in the relationship. They delineate responses to inappropriate or unhealthy engagement or interactions.

So first, let’s define what boundaries are and are not. Boundaries are used to define the limits of the relationships. They are healthy responses to violations of self. Boundaries are in place as trust is rebuilt in relationships. And knowing “how to set boundaries with my husband” are protection against repeated harm. Boundaries are not punishments.

They are not methods of coercing or forcing behaviors. They are not a way to avoid dealing with pain. And boundaries are not used to emotionally disconnect or isolate.

Misogynistic Victim Blaming To Make Women Feel Defective

From Years-Ago-Anne: So, when I was not practicing boundaries, my fear, my character defects of fear or control would crop up.

Anne: There’s some misogynistic victim blaming. I was convinced that my fear and desire to be safe was part of a character defect . So that’s why you can hear me say my character defects of fear or control would crop up. I was taught that I was defective and sick in 12 step. And that my fear was a result of my sickness.

The truth is that I was actually super brave. I’m willing to let go of control, because I was observing him from a safe distance at this time, and I was really brave. So having my sponsor tell me that I had this character defect of fear and control when that was not the case at all. I was brave, and I had let go completely.

Also, if I had any fear or desire to get to safety, it was because of his abuse. Not because I had some kind of character defect. So there, I can see that I still haven’t quite figured that out yet. All right, go on.

From Years-Ago-Anne: And rather than set a boundary for myself and knowing how to set boundaries with my husband. That I would turn to my sponsor, do recovery behaviors, surrender to God’s will, and do self care. I would turn toward my husband and try and make him be safe. I literally got down on my hands and knees and begged him to love me many times. He looked at me and said, “No I won’t.” Or I begged him to be kind, and he said, “No, I’m not going to be kind to you.”

Resisting Abuse Is Not The Same As Becoming Responsible

From Years-Ago-Anne: And that only put me in a further state of stress. He was abusing me, and instead of detaching from my abuser, setting a boundary, and getting myself to a safe place. I could just continue to be abused by trying to force my abuser to be kind.

Because boundaries are important and knowing how to set boundaries with my husband is important. The opposite is responsible for his behaviors or recovery. It is wise to self assess occasionally and determine whether you’re crossing the line into becoming responsible. Some warning signs that you may be crossing the line to becoming responsible for your husband’s behavior. They provide constant reminders of the recovery behaviors he should do.

Anne: Wow, I mean I was resisting abuse at the time. I wasn’t becoming responsible for his behavior. I was trying to find my way out of this. And do safety seeking behaviors, resisting the abuse. Resisting the abuse is not the same as “becoming responsible.”

Misguided 12-Step Teachings Harm Victims

Anne: I’m almost wondering right now with this misogynistic sort of codependent, 12 step stuff that I was being taught. If their intent was to get me to “back off of resisting the abuse.” Because if I stopped resisting the abuse, he could do what he wanted and still live in proximity to me. I don’t know. I need to think about that. Let’s see what else I say about this.

From Years-Ago-Anne: I did that constantly. And I didn’t realize that I was taking responsibility for his behavior. his anger, his abuse. I thought I was just “helping him.”

Anne: You didn’t realize that you were taking responsibility for his behavior because you weren’t. You were trying to get to safety. And resisting the abuse by trying to help him stop. You didn’t know “how to set boundaries with my husband.”

From Years-Ago-Anne: Experiencing consistent intense emotional reactions to his lack of recovery behavior, absolutely.

Anne: Isn’t that just like the ultimate euphemism? Rather than receiving the right framework to understand this from 12 step. Due to their influence in my life, I was led to believe it was my fault. That I experienced consistent, intense emotional reactions to his lack of recovery behavior, rather than the truth. Which was that I’m experiencing consistent, intense, emotional reactions due to his emotional and psychological abuse.

There’s a huge difference in the way I was perceiving it then. And how I now see it.

Realizing The Truth About Abuse & Addiction

From Years-Ago-Anne: When he would get into his rage or be irritable, I knew it was a lack of recovery behavior. I didn’t have words for it back then, but I knew, “Oh no, something bad is coming.” I would get so much fear and so much worry that my family would be destroyed. I worried that something super bad was going to happen, and so I would go into control mode.

Anne: Wow, wow, so women who are out there who thought of these behaviors as their lack of recovery behavior. Or their childhood trauma coming up, or their personality disorder, or something that might be the case. But for us, we experience it as abuse. So the reality is when he would go into his rage or be irritable. Back then I said, I knew it was his lack of recovery behavior.

Wow, I mean, I did mention the word abuse, but it was not his lack of recovery behavior that caused the fear. But it was this abuse that caused the fear that all these euphemisms are incredibly mind-bending, but these same euphemisms are used in couple therapy, addiction recovery and in churches. Nobody, I guess even me, wanted to call it abuse back then.

So here I am saying, “Oh no, something bad is coming.” And I get so much fear, and then I say, “I would go into control mode.” I blamed myself, rather than realizing I’m abused. I have so much fear for good reason. This fear is not due to my character defect. God gave me this fear, He is warning me. Something bad will happen, get to safety. I was also incorrectly interpreting that.

Misguided Advice About Coping Mechanisms & How To Set Boundaries With My Husband

Anne: So 12 step was not telling me to get to safety at all. The only thing they’re doing is basically saying stop resisting the abuse. And I don’t think any woman in the world can stop resisting the abuse. There’s always going to be a way that she tries to figure out how to resist it, even if she can’t resist it overtly. I didn’t know how to set boundaries with my husband.

From Years-Ago-Anne: Punishing or shaming him into doing the things he has committed to do, basing your own commitment to recovery on whether or not he is doing his own recovery work, numbing out or disconnecting from your own emotions based on his behaviors.

Anne: Wow, so here I’m being taught that if I resist the abuse, I’m punishing or shaming him. That’s like the worst thing to say to a victim. You’re not punishing your abuser by resisting his abuse. You’re not shaming your abuser by resisting his abuse. And then basing your own commitment to recovery on whether he’s doing recovery work. I didn’t even need to be going to 12 step.

So for them to tell me like, you need to come to a 12 step, whether he does this. I don’t need to come to a 12 step at all, period. End of story. And then numbing out or disconnecting from your own emotions based on his behaviors. Since I don’t enjoy pain. I don’t think I’m going to look an abuse victim in the eye and tell her. Hey, when you’re in so much emotional pain that you can’t stand it.

Blaming Myself Even Though I Was Trying To Get To Safety

Anne: Too bad for you. Like for me, I tried not to numb or disconnect, but I needed a break from the pain. And so I would watch television. I would go out with my friends, like it’s okay to numb when the pain is so intense. That you can’t function. It’s okay to disconnect from your emotions for a minute. Oh, wow, this is really hard to listen to.

From Years-Ago-Anne: or controlling or manipulating. Now I did not know I was doing that at the time. I was. I just thought I was trying to serve my husband. And help him and express my needs, and there is nothing wrong with helping someone, or expressing your needs. Or stating to your husband what your needs are. My problem was that he was not safe in those moments and so I would be further abused.

Anne: I am so close, so close. I wasn’t safe in those moments. But instead, I think the cause is his lack of recovery behaviors, rather than realizing that the cause is his abuse. And 12 Step tells me that I’m controlling and trying to manipulate him. And I’m saying, I didn’t know I was doing it at a time. It’s because I wasn’t, I wasn’t controlling or manipulating anything. I was trying to get to safety by communicating with an abuser.

It would have been nice to know that at the time. But I am learning about boundaries. So let’s see what else I say about boundaries and how to set boundaries with my husband.

Learning About How To Set Boundaries With My Husband

From Years-Ago-Anne: So good boundaries will help you avoid these types of responses. Your own triggers in recovery and emotional responses sometimes lead to unhealthy coping. This could include emotionally disconnecting, punishing, controlling, or micromanaging others behaviors.

Personal boundaries, and knowing, “how to set boundaries with my husband,” will allow you to make healthy choices in the face of powerful emotional triggers. I wish I knew that then.

Anne: Oh, the things you don’t know now even, wow. Why is this such a process? Why is this such a process to understand what’s going on? My poor self. There’s a euphemism again for abuse, powerful, emotional triggers. Those are just emotional and psychological abuse. Personal boundaries will allow you to make healthy choices in the face of abuse.

And then they want you to avoid your “unhealthy coping,” which would be emotionally disconnecting. No, you definitely want to emotionally disconnect from emotional abuse. Punishing, which I guess is resisting the abuse. Like I’m not going to talk to the abuser. Controlling, trying to actually do something that will get you to safety.

Like not being in his presence anymore. Or micromanaging others behaviors. The thing about micromanaging is that in this context, you feel bad. They’re making it seem like I’ve got some sort of character defect. Rather than me realizing he’s not safe. So. Being in proximity to him will be harmful to me. But it’s not because I’m trying to micromanage anything. It’s because I don’t know what else to do. And I’m resisting the abuse. And I just want to be safe.

Reflecting On Trust & Detachment

From Years-Ago-Anne: I wish I had been in recovery, but I wasn’t. And I am genuinely sorry. And I am looking forward to steps eight and nine, so that I can make amends for those things. I’m actually genuinely embarrassed that I participated in those behaviors. When I honestly and authentically thought I was helping him and didn’t know how to set boundaries with my husband.

Anne: So adding onto the pain of being an abuse victim. I have compounded this guilt that I wasn’t in recovery for my sickness. That I had been participating in these like awful behaviors that aren’t awful at all. I wasn’t doing anything wrong. Then I say that I’m looking forward to making amends for resisting abuse and seeking safety.

And then I’m embarrassed that I was resisting abuse. And back then, I thought I was authentically trying to help him stop his abuse. So I was resisting abuse in that effort. What else did I have to say back then?

From Years-Ago-Anne: Examples of personal boundary statements and how to set boundaries with my husband are, I can choose my responses to his slips or relapses. I do not have to allow my trauma to control how I respond. Instead of punishing or hurting him, I will take care of myself in a healthy way.

When he has earned my trust, I will share with him my feelings and needs. This was my main problem, that I did not trust my husband, especially when he was in addict mode, when he was angry or irritable.

Dealing With A Lack Of Trust

Anne: Another euphemism here, addict mode rather than abuse. So instead of saying the main problem was that he was abusive, and I didn’t trust him due to his abuse. Instead, I say, especially when he was in addict mode, when he was angry or irritable, which equates to abuse.

From Years-Ago-Anne: So I tried to make him trustworthy, to take responsibility for his actions. Or I tried to make him compassionate or kind, and that never worked. Instead, I needed to detach, set a boundary, take care of myself in a healthy way, and then see if he worked toward earning my trust.

Anne: The good news, I’m learning to set effective boundaries that I have perfected over the years. Now I’m completely safe. And I teach those in the Living Free Workshop. I was victim blamed. They told me that I was “allowing my trauma to control how I responded.” That was not happening.

I was interpreting it as some kind of character defect, rather than just seeing. Hey, I was resisting abuse. And I was doing the best I could, thank goodness. This is how to set boundaries with my husband in an effective way.

Anne: It works, so I did that and that eventually got me to safety, even if I didn’t understand exactly what was happening. While being victim blamed in the process.

From Years-Ago-Anne: When I finally did that, let go, and observed from a distance to see if he would earn my trust again. He didn’t attempt to do that. From what I could tell, there were absolutely no attempts to earn back my trust.

Effective Boundary Setting Is Essential

From Years-Ago-Anne: Another one is that I can decide when and how I begin to trust him again. I will work on my own recovery, regardless of his commitment to his recovery. Instead of zoning out and emotionally disconnecting when I’m in pain, I will reach out and share with others in my life who are safe. I think that’s essential.

Also I would always reach out to my husband. I rarely zoned out or emotionally disconnected, but my husband wasn’t safe. So I reached out and tried to connect with someone who was emotionally unsafe, and that always put me in a very precarious position. I will choose not to be responsible for his choices.

And here’s one last example of a personal boundary statement and how to set boundaries with my husband. I can choose to love and accept myself even when his addiction affects the way I perceive myself.

Anne: The point of creating the Living Free Workshop was to explain effective boundaries in a way that was not victim blaming at all. That anyone enrolled could clearly see that all these things were due to his manipulation and lying, and that I wasn’t at fault for any of it.

Because as I explain, some of it is right on. The problem is I’m not identifying that the abuse is what’s causing me to react in the way I am. And my reactions are resistance to abuse, and that is healthy and good.

A Painful Story of Emotional Abuse

Anne: So I’m about to tell a story. That includes part of my faith, which is attending the temple. The temple is all about love. And an eternal family. And so when you hear me tell this story, we’ve just been to this worship service. That’s focused on how Christ helps us feel connected. And a few days before, we went to the temple when this incident occurred. Which you’re going to hear, happens.

But he hadn’t repaired in between. Also, before you hear the story, I hadn’t really come to grips with what he was doing here. Now I know that this was this flat out manipulation and psychological abuse. He was trying to mess with my head. But he wouldn’t just tell me openly what his intentions were or what was going on. He was trying to get me to react emotionally and psychologically abusively, because he had a goal in mind.

From Years-Ago-Anne: I’ve been thinking a lot about one night when my husband was extremely calm. He came to me and said, “I know you’ve asked me your whole marriage to tell you that you’re beautiful. And the reason I have not said that is because I don’t think you’re beautiful.”

So I should have detached right then. And I’m like, okay, he is very unsafe, but instead I decided to engage with him and fight him and say, that’s not true. You do think I’m beautiful. And then he said this, and this is the part that hurt me so deeply. He said, well, physically you’re beautiful, but your personality and who you are, make you ugly.

Continuing Emotional Abuse & Setting Boundaries

From Years-Ago-Anne: Your face when you are scared or frightened, and your personality and the way you interact with me. And who you are from the inside is completely, I can’t ever tell you that you’re beautiful. And I was absolutely devastated. That is the beginning of things getting really bad for us, and he never repaired that.

There was never a time. In fact, we went to the temple, and we did sealings. I don’t know how long after that. And we went to the celestial room, and we were holding hands. I just could not do it. Because here was a man, who could not tell me that I was beautiful, who did not think that my soul was beautiful.

Even if he didn’t like my hair, or he thought I was a little overweight, he could not bring himself to tell me that I was beautiful. To him, that was just totally lying, and I thought, I can’t be with someone like this. I remember standing up in the celestial room and walking off in pain and hurt. Completely and totally hung out to dry by my husband, who seemed fine and had never tried to repair that.

That was before I had boundaries. Now, I know that I would have set a boundary. And said, okay, when I feel safe and when you can see me, and when your perceptions of me are not abusive. Because those perceptions in and of themselves, that’s what made him abusive, are the way he perceived me. He perceived me a certain way, that I was trying to hurt him, or that my questions were shamey or whatever. And really, that was what propagated the abuse.

Abusers Lie On Purpose To Harm

Anne: That’s what I thought back then, but now I actually don’t think that, I think he was lying. I think he was lying on purpose to harm me. To get me to react so that he’d have an excuse to do what he wanted to do. I’m not sure exactly what he was doing, but he was leaving the house at night to perhaps solicit prostitutes or maybe having an affair.

I’m not sure. Because he would leave, and then come home, and I wouldn’t know what was going on. But now I know that he was lying on purpose. He didn’t necessarily perceive me that way, but he wanted me to believe he did. Because that would hurt me more than knowing that he was lying.

From Years-Ago-Anne: I needed to set a boundary and learn how to set boundaries with my husband and tell him he was not abusive. It takes a long time, and that has never happened. So I’m still setting and learning about how to set boundaries with my husband now. I realized I had never felt emotionally connected. Like, there had never been a time in our marriage where I had initiated intimacy because I felt emotionally connected.

I was doing it just to keep, you know, just because I thought he would want to. Not because I felt this deep emotional connection. And my husband rarely, rarely initiated. And when he did, it was because he wanted to. Not because he felt emotionally connected with me in the last 10 months. My husband has not been safe enough for me to be with or even communicate with.

How To Set Boundaries With My Husband: The Importance of Enforcing Boundaries

From Years-Ago-Anne: So implementing, enforcing, and how to set boundaries with my husband is important, and that’s the hardest part. It’s easy to think about what boundaries you’re going to have, it’s easy to tell someone what your boundaries will be, but it’s very difficult to actually enforce them. Like I said, I did not have any boundaries before my husband’s arrest.

I was working toward figuring out what those were, and then God stepped in and said, Boom! This is gonna be your boundary, and I’m so grateful that he provided a safe means for my escape from my abuser. So addicts hate boundaries, and then they set boundaries, usually to disconnect or isolate. I sponsor a woman whose husband, when he is in addict mode, says, “My boundary is I’m leaving and I’m not coming back until tomorrow.”

That’s abandoning your spouse. That is not “how to set boundaries with my husband,” and that is emotionally disconnecting and enables him to practice his addiction. Enforcing the boundaries is the hardest part. I was lucky enough to have the police enforce my boundary that I didn’t even know I had for me. Or the boundary that God created for me.

My husband was not choosing to protect me or our family, and it has been destroyed. He filed for divorce on Monday. Of course, that’s not protecting our family either. He’s continuing down the path of destroying our family. And I’m very sad, very, very sad. But that doesn’t mean I will change my boundaries to contact someone. Who is so unsafe that they would destroy my family. So, boundaries right now are essential for me.

Challenges In Wife’s Recovery Process

From Years-Ago-Anne: Defining and enforcing boundaries is often one of the more challenging aspects of a wife’s recovery process. However, becoming adept at boundary work is often the defining process for wives. I work with a few women in recovery. I’m the sponsor of three of them, and they’re learning “how to set boundaries with my husband,” and it’s very difficult.

Anne: I’m talking about how to set boundaries with my husband in the context of 12 step. The wife’s recovery process is interesting to me. It’s defining her as a wife of this guy, rather than helping her view herself as independent. Which was important for me to do in the Living Free Workshop. To ensure that women know you don’t need to be defined by the fact that you are married to an abuser. A pornography addict, or a sex addict, you are you.

So this recovery program, that’s saying a wife’s recovery process. Rather than saying an individual’s recovery process, or the more accurate way to say it would be. An individual’s healing from abuse.

How To Set Boundaries With My Husband: Ongoing Trauma & Healing

From Years-Ago-Anne: I’ve had a lot of women in the group tell me that when they learned “how to set boundaries with my husband.” And they actually set them and kept them until they felt safe. Miracles began to happen. That is light, and light repels darkness. And it has been heart wrenching, and basically felt like the gates of hell were gaping after me. It was very difficult to maintain that my heart is so broken, and I am completely, totally devastated by that.

As my boundaries have improved, my sense of self has as well. My trauma is still intense, but I think it will begin to lose its power over time. As I practice recovery behaviors, it doesn’t always feel like it’s working. In fact, I’ve days lately where I’m just walking down the hall, and suddenly, it’s like someone punches me in the stomach. I start just howling, uncontrollably sobbing.

And I feel so alone, and I feel so completely abandoned by my husband and his choices. That he chose his addiction and his anger over his family. That he purposefully destroys our family. I feel so much trauma. And I do surrender, I surrender, I keep my boundaries. I am learning more about how to set boundaries with my husband, and I still am in this trauma place.

And I have faith that if I continue to read my scriptures, pray, attend the temple, which I’m doing. If I continue to reach out, to do connecting behaviors with my sponsor, friends and family, which I’m doing. I will heal eventually. I went to yoga this morning, and I got a little mantra card from my teacher, and it said, “Your healing is already in process.”

My Life Is Completely Different Now

Anne: And it was, my healing was already in process. And even though I was not getting the education I needed about abuse at that time. I was starting to learn effective strategies and how to set boundaries with my husband. That I used throughout the years. My life is completely different now. I feel such peace on a daily basis. But I remember the pain.

No matter where you are on your journey. We’re here for you.